Hellcat down

[DavidKFla]

An engine failure post turns into a thermostat discussion, I never would have guessed. Next we will be discussing which oil is best and if Bowlerguy92 used that oil....

Those who have blown Redeye/Demon engines should post pictures of the damage, it would be helpful to compare them, especially those that lost cylinder 2.

Conversations naturally evolve in many different directions.

 

[Bowlerguy92]

 

[DavidKFla]

WTF?

 

[Jon-MooredPerformanceLLC]

My personal cari did have a fuel pump failure a little before this and I also had trapped 157 mph on this engine and the track day before this I was over 150mph on a stock engine. It owed me nothing. But yep it was 2.

 

[fubar569]

I see the problem. You put the piston in the wrong way. It's not supposed to be sideways.

 

[Octanewide]

This is an entertaining thread. I will say, stock engine internal clearances are engineered to operate at the stock temp for part growth. I’m in the camp that you want your engine to get up to operating temp as soon as possible. 160 is 100% too low as I have experienced first hand the car will never learn fuel trims as it will never get up to temp. 180, does it do anything? Probably not. If you’re running at the ragged edge and want to free up every last pony/ be at or slightly above stock operating temp at the end of a pass? Maybe. But again, these engines are designed to operate HOT.

The 180 tstat is debated almost as much as oil. When DC starting putting 180's in their stage kits with warranty that was icing on the cake for my decision to use them. I'm tuned and my tuner approves so I can take advantage with fan settings set lower and no possiblity of a check engine light..

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[DavidKFla]

The 180 tstat is debated almost as much as oil. When DC starting putting 180's in their stage kits with warranty that was icing on the cake for my decision to use them. I'm tuned and my tuner approves so I can take advantage with fan settings set lower and no possiblity of a check engine light..

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

Same here. Went to 180, lower fan settings and heat exchanger at initial tune.

 

[RGPIII]

Have you pulled the injectors and sent them off for testing? you can definitely see that cylinder got hot! How long had you been on E85? possibility of poor quality E? or a piece of trash getting to the injector? were you logging at the time of the failure? that should show you everything you need to know about what happened.

 

[EricG]

My personal cari did have a fuel pump failure a little before this and I also had trapped 157 mph on this engine and the track day before this I was over 150mph on a stock engine. It owed me nothing. But yep it was 2. View attachment 122221

Amazing what a redeye with a regular body can do! I’ve always believed I could go 9.9x at sea level with my car and its stock with only a rear tire.

 

[RGPIII]

My opinion (with "some" experience) is that it goes a little like this:

Stock Hellcat motor is good to 10.00. Below that you're pushing it. You'll see lots run faster than that but on borrowed time IMO.

Stock Redeye motor is good to 9.50. Below that you're pushing it.

I disagree with this. I went 9.40’s on a stock hellcat for 2 years and a lot have done the same.

I have to agree with Jim on this one, the stock hellcat engine is one stout setup. My first 2016 hellcat was a mid 9 car until I sold it. My current one ran 9.3's and as low as 8.9 on the stock 2016 engine. with more than 60-80 passes in that range. I still have that engine sitting in my shop, no signs of any issues at all in it.

 

[sc4.6]

View attachment 122212 View attachment 122213 View attachment 122214 View attachment 122215 View attachment 122216 View attachment 122217

It looks like you melted piston 4 and scored the walls in cylinder 3, unless I'm missing something, cylinder 2 looks good.

What fuel were using when the damage happened?

 

[Unholy707]

View attachment 122212 View attachment 122213 View attachment 122214 View attachment 122215 View attachment 122216 View attachment 122217

Are you running blower spacers?

 

[hellno]

Some of you may know I've been a member here for a little while now, actively drag racing my 2022 HCREWB chasing a 9 second slip with help from @Jon-MooredPerformanceLLC. Unfortunately the fun came crashing down at a track rental about a month ago where I experienced an engine failure on my first and only pass of the day.

Long story short, I completed the pass (slow, only a 10.4 and with good air) and upon coming back down for the slip noticed my engine was misfiring badly with a distinct lack of responsiveness from the gas pedal. I thought maybe a quick cool down or a tune reload or something might fix it so I parked it and shut it down. Tried to crank it again and no luck. There was too much resistance for the starter to even turn the car over and it sounded pretty much like a dead battery. Thinking that may actually for some reason be the issue, I got a jump from @2ndAmend which provided enough juice I guess for the starter to overcome the resistance and I got the engine fired. Immediately, white smoke began pouring out the tailpipe, pulley tensioner bouncing around like crazy. Uh oh, I thought...something is really fucked here. I ended up having it towed and it's sat at the speedshop waiting for work in front of it to be completed since then.

Finally this week the shop was able to pull the motor and disassemble and confirmed it was a failure in cylinder 2, which ironically enough Jon told me was his guess weeks ago when we discussed the situation initially. Based on what we can see currently, it appears a lean condition due to an FIC injector failure caused excessive heat buildup in that cylinder, blowing half of my piston off and creating a blowtorch of sorts that actually had tried to cut through the bottom of the block. Basically, I need a new short block and porting of the heads may be required if the machine shop doesn't think they can machine the little bit of damage that those also sustained. $$$$ Jon's guess and observation is that it's likely that these motors just have an inherent weakness in cylinder 2 and that the injector will test out fine. This isn't the first time he's seen this and in multiple cases, it's happened on stock motors.

What the shop did tell me, though, is that the rest of the engine looks great with no visible wear on my pistons or within the other 7 cylinders. Jon's tuning work, to no one's surprise, is excellent and had absolutely nothing to do with this failure. He's actually been great and engaged in this situation and will work with me to help vet quotes from the shop, put me in touch with folks he knows who can build me a short block for a reasonable price, etc.

Anyways, unfortunate that it is, it looks like I'll have an opportunity to possibly throw a 426 stroker kit or something of that nature at it and really build something next level. Photos exist of the damaged engine but I unfortunately didn't receive them tonight. Once I have them, I'll make sure I post them here so you can all see the damage.

Feel free to leave thoughts, ideas, create a prayer circle for a downed brother, etc I'll make sure to update this thread with photos and of course let everyone know what we end up doing with this build.

,,when jim and i finished the last motor which the one before it had cylinder 2 failure ,when we started the new motor it had a misfire on cylinder two as well i was in a hurry to get home and jim felt that it was either a coil or injector issue so when i finished it at home it turned out number two injector had indeed stuck ,i definite learn a lesson and from that point i had bought a new set of injectors and had the others cleaned ,i wasnt running an external fuel filter at that time and i chalked it up to that being the cause of the injector sticking ,with our cars having return systems or even a fore fuel line crossover, I definitely suggest an inline filter and getting injectors cleaned the rubber an line i believe has a very high chance of creating debree that causes injector failure

 

[DavidKFla]

,,when jim and i finished the last motor which the one before it had cylinder 2 failure ,when we started the new motor it had a misfire on cylinder two as well i was in a hurry to get home and jim felt that it was either a coil or injector issue so when i finished it at home it turned out number two injector had indeed stuck ,i definite learn a lesson and from that point i had bought a new set of injectors and had the others cleaned ,i wasnt running an external fuel filter at that time and i chalked it up to that being the cause of the injector sticking ,with our cars having return systems or even a fore fuel line crossover, I definitely suggest an inline filter and getting injectors cleaned the rubber an line i believe has a very high chance of creating debree that causes injector failure

You guys aren't running a micron inline fuel filter? I used 1 running race gas, just incase. Still on the car.

 

[Jon-MooredPerformanceLLC]

First I saw these pics. Half way down the track knock sensors went mad now we see why. One thing when analyzing these pics the event didn't just happen and the car shut down the pass was finished so how much detonation happened after before or after the event is the unknown. But knock sensors were 100% clean then they screamed

 

[Jon-MooredPerformanceLLC]

You guys aren't running a micron inline fuel filter? I used 1 running race gas, just incase. Still on the car.

He's on a stock fuel system and pumps.

 

[RGPIII]

,,when jim and i finished the last motor which the one before it had cylinder 2 failure ,when we started the new motor it had a misfire on cylinder two as well i was in a hurry to get home and jim felt that it was either a coil or injector issue so when i finished it at home it turned out number two injector had indeed stuck ,i definite learn a lesson and from that point i had bought a new set of injectors and had the others cleaned ,i wasnt running an external fuel filter at that time and i chalked it up to that being the cause of the injector sticking ,with our cars having return systems or even a fore fuel line crossover, I definitely suggest an inline filter and getting injectors cleaned the rubber an line i believe has a very high chance of creating debree that causes injector failure

I'm looking to add that inline filter on my car this winter. I'm staying retunless however. I run only 1R fuel, and clean my own injectors a couple times a season.

 

[hellno]

I'm looking to add that inline filter on my car this winter. I'm staying retunless however. I run only 1R fuel, and clean my own injectors a couple times a season.

cleaning injectors often is a good idea @RGPIII ,,,its funny how a thermostat getts blamed for a piston melt down
just grow a pair and build another engine to blow up and repeat it again,i personally ran a 160 tstat ,and on my stock motor i ran a 180 with factory plugs and rans 8s but once the stats open and coolant is flowing it really doesnt matter which t stat you have in it ,if it had over heated then id imagined it would have showed up in the logs,,,truth is you play you pay ,even the big boys blow motors,and instead of playing the blame game just know that when you modify something it then is not being used for its original intentions and we should expect it to be less durable ..personally my ballsdeep stickers were a supporting mod ,if he had that on his car it may have lasted longer

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

First I saw these pics. Half way down the track knock sensors went mad now we see why. One thing when analyzing these pics the event didn't just happen and the car shut down the pass was finished so how much detonation happened after before or after the event is the unknown. But knock sensors were 100% clean then they screamed

He's on a stock fuel system and pumps.

Was fuel Pressure being logged at the time of failure?

 

[Jon-MooredPerformanceLLC]

Was fuel Pressure being logged at the time of failure?

Yes desired and fuel pressure where the same at 100 psi just like a stock redeye