Shift scheduling. Anyone want to share?

[jonx96]

So here’s something else to think about. Ive taken all the Dodge courses from the Tuning School, those courses are created with the help of tuners that many of us have worked with. Anything they have put in the books is on HP Tuners website in the forums.

I found their transmission book helpful. It took a lot of time out of research. I do still take things I see in the book and research. It isn't a one stop kind of deal. Still need to do some test hits to get the car driving like you want.
So one thing. I see you said not to adjust Max Engine Speed 44085. I know the tuning school doesn't say to adjust this but I always have. I've seen a lot of people at our track have limiter issues that shut the car down and I have wondered if this table is the reason for that happening. Have you ran into any issues not adjusting it?

 

[fumanchu182]

I found their transmission book helpful. It took a lot of time out of research. I do still take things I see in the book and research. It isn't a one stop kind of deal. Still need to do some test hits to get the car driving like you want.
So one thing. I see you said not to adjust Max Engine Speed 44085. I know the tuning school doesn't say to adjust this but I always have. I've seen a lot of people at our track have limiter issues that shut the car down and I have wondered if this table is the reason for that happening. Have you ran into any issues not adjusting it?

I have banged off this limiter and the car has fallen on it's nose, not because it wasn't doing it's job but because the car is in a failsafe mode when it hits these. I took the WOT values for these and multiplied them by their gear ratio:

1->2 2->3 3->4 4->5 5->6 6->7 7->8
6971 7002 6972 7014 7031 7000 7014

If you've take your trans to these values, this is a NG situation. Either command more line pressure or command the shift earlier. If anyone is shutting down at the track and they are not data logging then assuming it is this table is hearsay. I've banged off the rev limiter and it will tell you exactly why it happened, you are hitting one of these and yeeting your trans.

 

[jonx96]

I have banged off this limiter and the car has fallen on it's nose, not because it wasn't doing it's job but because the car is in a failsafe mode when it hits these. I took the WOT values for these and multiplied them by their gear ratio:

1->2 2->3 3->4 4->5 5->6 6->7 7->8
6971 7002 6972 7014 7031 7000 7014

If you've take your trans to these values, this is a NG situation. Either command more line pressure or command the shift earlier. If anyone is shutting down at the track and they are not data logging then assuming it is this table is hearsay. I've banged off the rev limiter and it will tell you exactly why it happened, you are hitting one of these and yeeting your trans.

I’m going to have to look back at my notes with the order things happen. It may not be needed to raise them. But I think my thought process was that I have limiters set in numerous other tables including fuel cut off in the engine and then there is a different table in the trans for rpm cut off.
I have only banged the rev limiter when I broke my axle

 

[BULL]

Ive taken all the Dodge courses from the Tuning School

More info on this Tuning School please. Online? How much? Opinion of value? Worthwhile?

 

[jonx96]

More info on this Tuning School please. Online? How much? Opinion of value? Worthwhile?

They do sales a few times a year. They currently do not offer anything hellcat specific. For the most part it is just books. Unless you buy the complete set which then it is a few videos as well. The trans book will work for the hellcat. Just have to keep in my the stock trans tune is more aggressive than one in an r/t or a scat pack. The trans book will teach you to raise Shift points and pressures. For the most part it will get you close and on the right track following the book. They have a hemi book but it doesn't cover the hellcat. I'd assume a majority of the tables are similar. I'd assume fueling would almost be the same concept. The timing tables for sure you'd have to spend some extra time if following the book. I have never seen the hemi book but I'm sure the hellcat basics would still be covered.
Of course we would be here to help fill in the blanks if needed.
Book only engine doesn't cover hellcat --> https://thetuningschool.com/collections/enthusiast/products/dodge-beginners-using-hp-tuners
Book only trans covers hellcat --> https://thetuningschool.com/collections/dodge-tuning/products/dodge-transmission

 

[white1]

Wow. As a tuner its wonderful to see the helpfulness of this forum!

I skimmed through all the post, but as explained, shift scheduling is based on output shaft speed. Divide desired shift rpm by gear ratio (of the transmission)
for example, 1st gear ratio is 4.7 so if you want a 6250 rpm shift youll divide the 6250/4.7=1329.787 so for the 1>2 shift, take where you want pedal position to be wot (I use the bottom 3 rows) and enter 1330 into those 3 cells, repeat for gear ratio vs desired shift rpm for the remaining gears. 6th is 1:1 so it would be desired engine rpm, and I personally dont like shifting into over drive under wot, so I leave those alone but they could be maxed out as well.

Depending on shift rpm you might need to raise the trans max rpm as well to avoid limp mode, but I believe that is 7560 stock.

Ill be happy to send you a copy of my file in my personal car for reference purposes.

Also, you can log aggression pattern to see what pattern your in . I personally change all the aggression based schedules to the same numbers so it always will do what Im hoping it will under wot conditions.

Shift pressures are a whole different lesson, but again, as every tuner is different, I adjust my normal mode as well as I like a firmer shift daily driving as well

This is my current tune I daily drive for anyone to reference if they would like

 

[jonx96]

Wow. As a tuner its wonderful to see the helpfulness of this forum!

I skimmed through all the post, but as explained, shift scheduling is based on output shaft speed. Divide desired shift rpm by gear ratio (of the transmission)
for example, 1st gear ratio is 4.7 so if you want a 6250 rpm shift youll divide the 6250/4.7=1329.787 so for the 1>2 shift, take where you want pedal position to be wot (I use the bottom 3 rows) and enter 1330 into those 3 cells, repeat for gear ratio vs desired shift rpm for the remaining gears. 6th is 1:1 so it would be desired engine rpm, and I personally dont like shifting into over drive under wot, so I leave those alone but they could be maxed out as well.

Depending on shift rpm you might need to raise the trans max rpm as well to avoid limp mode, but I believe that is 7560 stock.

Ill be happy to send you a copy of my file in my personal car for reference purposes.

Also, you can log aggression pattern to see what pattern your in . I personally change all the aggression based schedules to the same numbers so it always will do what Im hoping it will under wot conditions.

Shift pressures are a whole different lesson, but again, as every tuner is different, I adjust my normal mode as well as I like a firmer shift daily driving as well

This is my current tune I daily drive for anyone to reference if they would like

It is not like this on every forum. I asked to see a datalog on an ecoboost forum and a well known tuner over there told me to pound sand because I was trying to steal his tune. To me he is just being greedy and is hurting the community more than helping.
I'd rather see more people like we have here willing to help each other out when needed.

 

[jonx96]

Wow. As a tuner its wonderful to see the helpfulness of this forum!

I skimmed through all the post, but as explained, shift scheduling is based on output shaft speed. Divide desired shift rpm by gear ratio (of the transmission)
for example, 1st gear ratio is 4.7 so if you want a 6250 rpm shift youll divide the 6250/4.7=1329.787 so for the 1>2 shift, take where you want pedal position to be wot (I use the bottom 3 rows) and enter 1330 into those 3 cells, repeat for gear ratio vs desired shift rpm for the remaining gears. 6th is 1:1 so it would be desired engine rpm, and I personally dont like shifting into over drive under wot, so I leave those alone but they could be maxed out as well.

Depending on shift rpm you might need to raise the trans max rpm as well to avoid limp mode, but I believe that is 7560 stock.

Ill be happy to send you a copy of my file in my personal car for reference purposes.

Also, you can log aggression pattern to see what pattern your in . I personally change all the aggression based schedules to the same numbers so it always will do what Im hoping it will under wot conditions.

Shift pressures are a whole different lesson, but again, as every tuner is different, I adjust my normal mode as well as I like a firmer shift daily driving as well

This is my current tune I daily drive for anyone to reference if they would like

@BULL with those links I sent you earlier compare a stock tune to the tune posted here. It will help you understand what is being done to what you are reading.

 

[moparjim]

@BULL with those links I sent you earlier compare a stock tune to the tune posted here. It will help you understand what is being done to what you are reading.

I guess I will be learning how to do more with HPTuners. Hmm... compare, there must be an easy way to do that.🤔😂

 

[Hpindy]

I guess I will be learning how to do more with HPTuners. Hmm... compare, there must be an easy way to do that.

Don't worry Jimbo. That will be covered in one of our in class sessions .

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[moparjim]

Don't worry Jimbo. That will be covered in one of our in class sessions .

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

Now that I fixed the F'in snowblower again and fixed my chimney for the pellet stove. I now will have time to go through some of those courses. By spring I will have a better knowledge of this stuff, I promise.😉

 

[AlleyCat]

Wow. As a tuner its wonderful to see the helpfulness of this forum!

I skimmed through all the post, but as explained, shift scheduling is based on output shaft speed. Divide desired shift rpm by gear ratio (of the transmission)
for example, 1st gear ratio is 4.7 so if you want a 6250 rpm shift youll divide the 6250/4.7=1329.787 so for the 1>2 shift, take where you want pedal position to be wot (I use the bottom 3 rows) and enter 1330 into those 3 cells, repeat for gear ratio vs desired shift rpm for the remaining gears. 6th is 1:1 so it would be desired engine rpm, and I personally dont like shifting into over drive under wot, so I leave those alone but they could be maxed out as well.

Depending on shift rpm you might need to raise the trans max rpm as well to avoid limp mode, but I believe that is 7560 stock.

Ill be happy to send you a copy of my file in my personal car for reference purposes.

Also, you can log aggression pattern to see what pattern your in . I personally change all the aggression based schedules to the same numbers so it always will do what Im hoping it will under wot conditions.

Shift pressures are a whole different lesson, but again, as every tuner is different, I adjust my normal mode as well as I like a firmer shift daily driving as well

This is my current tune I daily drive for anyone to reference if they would like

Very nice of you to share.

 

[AlleyCat]

Wow. As a tuner its wonderful to see the helpfulness of this forum!

I skimmed through all the post, but as explained, shift scheduling is based on output shaft speed. Divide desired shift rpm by gear ratio (of the transmission)
for example, 1st gear ratio is 4.7 so if you want a 6250 rpm shift youll divide the 6250/4.7=1329.787 so for the 1>2 shift, take where you want pedal position to be wot (I use the bottom 3 rows) and enter 1330 into those 3 cells, repeat for gear ratio vs desired shift rpm for the remaining gears. 6th is 1:1 so it would be desired engine rpm, and I personally dont like shifting into over drive under wot, so I leave those alone but they could be maxed out as well.

Depending on shift rpm you might need to raise the trans max rpm as well to avoid limp mode, but I believe that is 7560 stock.

Ill be happy to send you a copy of my file in my personal car for reference purposes.

Also, you can log aggression pattern to see what pattern your in . I personally change all the aggression based schedules to the same numbers so it always will do what Im hoping it will under wot conditions.

Shift pressures are a whole different lesson, but again, as every tuner is different, I adjust my normal mode as well as I like a firmer shift daily driving as well

This is my current tune I daily drive for anyone to reference if they would like

You too have the 1-2 shift at 1500. It seems like it only hits 79.9 percent in the 1-2 shift. Anything above that is irrelevant.

 

[white1]

You too have the 1-2 shift at 1500. It seems like it only hits 79.9 percent in the 1-2 shift. Anything above that is irrelevant.

Thanks for pointing that out. I generally lock out 1st gear at the track and must have not set that shift back correctly. That explains blowing throught the 1>2 last track outing

It was supposed to be 1400. Correcting now

 

[ACMAVRO]

Sub'd. This is great info... even for an m6 guy!

 

[jonx96]

@fumanchu182 So taking time on the car today. I looked at the max engine table. Can you show me your math on that? This is what I convert it to. With this being the case this table is a limiting factor
Output shaft speed

Engine speed

 

[white1]

@fumanchu182 So taking time on the car today. I looked at the max engine table. Can you show me your math on that? This is what I convert it to. With this being the case this table is a limiting factor
Output shaft speed
View attachment 59607
Engine speed
View attachment 59606

Everything is based off output shaft speed.
8hp90 gear ratios are
1st-4.71
2nd-3.14
3rd-2.10
4th-1.67
5th-1.29
6th-1.00
7th-0.84
8th-0.67

I personally dont like high rpm shifts into overdrive so I only adjust 1st-6th

commanding a 6200rpm shift would be
1st 6200/4.71=1316.348 so OOS would be 1316.35rpm for 1>2 shift
2nd 6200/3.14=1975.522 commanded shift point would be 1974 for 2>3
3rd 6200/2.10=2952.380 commanded shift would be 2952 for 3>4

continue for the rest of the gears

 

[fumanchu182]

@fumanchu182 So taking time on the car today. I looked at the max engine table. Can you show me your math on that? This is what I convert it to. With this being the case this table is a limiting factor
Output shaft speed
View attachment 59607
Engine speed
View attachment 59606

When I look at my Max Engine Table (44085) it is not limiting my shifts at all:

How is the Max Engine limiting your shifts or what evidence from a log do you propose supports this? When you hit a redline or blow past it and put the car into a safe mode, HP Tuners will tell you when you log it?

 

[jonx96]

When I look at my Max Engine Table (44085) it is not limiting my shifts at all:
View attachment 59759
How is the Max Engine limiting your shifts or what evidence from a log do you propose supports this? When you hit a redline or blow past it and put the car into a safe mode, HP Tuners will tell you when you log it?

Ok now this is getting fun. Your values are much higher than mine stock. I just checked @vortecd stock read from his 2016 and it matches yours. Look at mine below


Also I have never had any shift issues. So I haven't logged for it. Above I said i've seen a few people at the track have issues especially after the burn out and I wondered if this table was the reason.