Aftermarket parts - what works and what is a waste of cash?

[DGatzby]

The comments about braking style are purely from things we've discussed over the past few years, as well as when we were at the track this summer. I was mainly catching you in Turn 1, 2 and braking for Turn 3. During the slower parts of the course your speed was about the same as mine. You had to hold back on the straight due to your alignment issue. You know I've had that same issue in the past. It's damn scary.
In addition, regarding the brakes, here are pictures of my front calipers and pads. The DTC70 front pads were new for that day at Brainerd. The caliper discoloration is due to heat, I believe mostly at Road America. Heck, Kevin Wesley showed me that his rear calipers are discolored like that too.
View attachment 25786
View attachment 25787

Regarding weight loss, all I've done on my car is remove the back seats. I added the Demon harness bar, so half of that weight is right back. Noone would use the rear seats with that harness bar back there anyway. I also removed the trunk floor panel because it interfered with my Petty rear shock brace. and I didn't want to cut it up. The other items, like the front sway bar and front rotors you've done too. I think you also have the lighter Demon rear rotors that I don't.
But sure, it's all in good fun. I enjoy learning things from you and I think you are the same.

TD what are the plates behind your pads?

 

[TrackDay]

Those are titanium shims that help to lessen the heat to the calipers and thus the fluid. I don't know how much they help but some people I know swear by them. They're about $80 for the front. This season I put them on the rear too for the heck of it.
KNS Brakes sells them. That's who I usually get my pads through now too.

 

[TrackDay]

Sounds like I should be able to order the Viper ACR front caliper kit next week. Kevin has plenty of the caliper adapters but the calipers are in short supply, thus the wait.
I'm getting anxious to get it installed before it's full on winter around here. No more track days for me this year though.

 

[DGatzby]

Sounds like I should be able to order the Viper ACR front caliper kit next week. Kevin has plenty of the caliper adapters but the calipers are in short supply, thus the wait.
I'm getting anxious to get it installed before it's full on winter around here. No more track days for me this year though.

Are they also smaller so you can put 19” diameter wheels up front?

 

[786Kitty]

Waste of cash:

• CAI - all it does is make you whine louder.
• Mid muff delete - makes you louder, no performance gains.
• Driveshaft upgrade when you're completely stock and don't track the car.
• Catch can?

Mods that work:

• Better rear tires/wider rear wheels
• PPF on the front (widebody panels)

I feel like these cars don't need any additional aftermarket upgrades, other than for looks. They're turn key and do what they're supposed to do, run in a straight line really fast.

That being said, I have two of the waste of cash mods on mine. To each his own hahaha!

My 2c

Thanks for the heads up. I am actually contemplating Items #1, #2 & #4 from your Waste of Cash section.

 

[TrackDay]

Are they also smaller so you can put 19” diameter wheels up front?

He has run 19" wheels with the stock Hellcat and the ACR calipers. I don't know that all 19" wheels fit though.

 

[Finface]

All,

This is a great thread centered around improving the Challenger's handling and cornering, with emphasis on fully harnessing the power of our cars by improving rear wheel traction. I sure have learned a lot from this thread, and from DGatzby's generous and detailed answers to technical questions I posed to him in emails, from DGatzby's trials and tribulations he published here as a forum pioneer (and other posters responding to his posts), and from communicating with the owners of aadperformance.com, from whom DGatzby and I obtained adjustable front upper control arms, adjustable rear upper control arms, adjustable rear toe links and non-adjustable lower control arms (often referred to as trailing arms as I've learned).

Rear cradle bushings from whitelineperformance.com and the AAD parts were installed by my Dodge dealership last week. I've only driven the car home - a half hour with freeway and country roads. First impressions on the street are very positive. Tomorrow I'll take it out for another street evaluation. In October I'll track the car at NCM and Putnam Park - and I'll post here how the car handles. I don't have the experience to give a really good review, but I'll try. I'll have an instructor in the car who can add his impressions.

These parts, and the dealership labor to install them, was not cheap. Installation labor was $1,808.95 (two days they had the car) plus $2,257 in AAD parts, plus $187 for the Whiteline bushing kit (I got them on sale) totals $4,254. To cap off the handling mods I've ordered some triumphforged.com custom wheels - 12" rears, 11" fronts - that will have Michelin Pilot 4S tires in size 345/30R20 and 315/30R20 respectively.

Why do this? It's my new hobby - I retired on September 1st. I planned for years to get a modern muscle car - my eye on these Challengers - and saved up the money. The 2019 Red Eye coincidentally was available just when I was ready to buy my dream car. The new suspension parts are the result of doing HPDE last October - that arena of amazing cars, enthusiastic drivers and various performance modifications is infectious! The new parts should make my car safer, are very strong so I'm not worried about warranty, and allow for adjustment of camber and rear toe. I'm hopeful the alignment settings I have now will prove the right ones. If so I won't mess with a good thing. If not I can attempt to fine-tune. All the camber settings are more negative than stock. Here they are;

Camber front left -2.0
Camber front right -2.2
Camber rear left -1.5
Camber rear right -1.5
Front and rear toe (all four wheels) .10 (a positive value means the front of the tires point inward - just a little is ideal for stability)

I'm sure DGatzby would agree working out the desired alignment settings was a workout in adjustable tab trial and error. Everyone wants perfection, but it is rarely achievable in suspensions with the stresses and strains and interrelated "moving" parts. They aren't supposed to move after being bolted up, but it seems there is always a little "play" after a car is set back on its wheels and rolled around. My SRT mechanic said getting the right tabs in the AAD parts to get the above values was a process and took replacing tabs (despite my best estimate starting with tabs I thought would work) and three alignments. It's an art, and a science, and all our car's stock suspension values can be a bit different for various reasons. I'd bet a paycheck (Ha! Retired, don't have one!) that if they put my car up on the alignment rack and after an easy hour on the road and checked the alignment values they'd be slightly different. Maybe even surprisingly different. But like horseshoes, hand grenades and nuclear weapons, close is almost always good enough. It comes down to how the car feels wringing it out. The exception, as DGatzby found out on the track, is getting toe settings close - to have that high speed, hard acceleration out of a corner stability.

Does anyone need to spend extra money to have great fun with any of our Challenger models? I sure don't think so. I felt conflicted messing with a perfectly good - a great - car. But I had the money set aside, the intention of tracking my car 6-8 days every season (Northern Kentucky), and very fortunately DGatzby up there in Minnesota to guide me - and the rest of you forumites with tracking experience to add to my knowledge base. It's a journey, but the journey often is the destination!

Best,

Finface

Replying to my own post... I just got back from Putnam Park Road Course southeast of Indianapolis last night. My first time there - liked it a lot. Shorter around than NCM - a really good time is 1 minute, 20 seconds I was told. I don't have a lap timer app for my iPhone so no idea what my lap times were...lol...because getting one of those is stepping out on the Road to Perdition, or at least a big step towards old age poverty! Yeah, I'll get one...who can really resist? Like the guy in Dirty Harry when Harry asks him, "I know what you're thinking, punk. Did he fire five, or six rounds?" I got's to know...

I do know one thing and that is The Driver Mod continues to need work. Some instructors besides my assigned instructor (who was awesome) took a personal interest in my progress. I got to ride in two amazing Corvettes - one a real race car set up and the other a pretty stock L6 Grand Sport - and I got to do two "lead/follow" exercises where the lead car showed me their idea of the race line. And I thought driving off into the grass was correct - who knew?

All very informative and a whole lot of fun! I did run on my stock Pirelli 305/30 all-season tires, which I got to consistently squeal (somebody told me a squealing tire is a happy tire) and I flirted with understeer on some tight corners where I pushed the front tires after exceeding their friction limit. These are clues I was close to the capability of the car. When I told people the car's no passenger curb weight is 4,500 pounds I got some sympathetic looks. They all LOVED the supercharger whine. I got RDEYE up to 127 mph on the main straightaway before chickening out and coasting into the first turn (in my demo rides the Grand Sport driver got to 138 and the race car Corvette driver - the head instructor for 10/10th's Motorsports who put on the weekend - got to 145 - Wow!) The car could have gotten there too, but true Threshold Braking is not in my bag of tricks yet.

 

[TrackDay]

Replying to my own post... I just got back from Putnam Park Road Course southeast of Indianapolis last night. My first time there - liked it a lot. Shorter around than NCM - a really good time is 1 minute, 20 seconds I was told. I don't have a lap timer app for my iPhone so no idea what my lap times were...lol...because getting one of those is stepping out on the Road to Perdition, or at least a big step towards old age poverty! Yeah, I'll get one...who can really resist? Like the guy in Dirty Harry when Harry asks him, "I know what you're thinking, punk. Did he fire five, or six rounds?" I got's to know...

I do know one thing and that is The Driver Mod continues to need work. Some instructors besides my assigned instructor (who was awesome) took a personal interest in my progress. I got to ride in two amazing Corvettes - one a real race car set up and the other a pretty stock L6 Grand Sport - and I got to do two "lead/follow" exercises where the lead car showed me their idea of the race line. And I thought driving off into the grass was correct - who knew?

All very informative and a whole lot of fun! I did run on my stock Pirelli 305/30 all-season tires, which I got to consistently squeal (somebody told me a squealing tire is a happy tire) and I flirted with understeer on some tight corners where I pushed the front tires after exceeding their friction limit. These are clues I was close to the capability of the car. When I told people the car's no passenger curb weight is 4,500 pounds I got some sympathetic looks. They all LOVED the supercharger whine. I got RDEYE up to 127 mph on the main straightaway before chickening out and coasting into the first turn (in my demo rides the Grand Sport driver got to 138 and the race car Corvette driver - the head instructor for 10/10th's Motorsports who put on the weekend - got to 145 - Wow!) The car could have gotten there too, but true Threshold Braking is not in my bag of tricks yet.

I ran Putnam in my 94 Firebird with NASA probably 20 years ago. It was a fun course kinda similar to Gingerman from memory.
I'm glad to see you're having fun. Get all the seat time with good instructors that you can.

 

[DGatzby]

I ran Putnam in my 94 Firebird with NASA probably 20 years ago. It was a fun course kinda similar to Gingerman from memory.
I'm glad to see you're having fun. Get all the seat time with good instructors that you can.

What is amazing is he has rubber remaining on those tires! I have seen pictures.

 

[Finface]

I ran Putnam in my 94 Firebird with NASA probably 20 years ago. It was a fun course kinda similar to Gingerman from memory.
I'm glad to see you're having fun. Get all the seat time with good instructors that you can.

Thanks, TD. I've really enjoyed the comments you and DGatzby have made in this thread.

When I'm not driving I'm lurking around the Advanced Class instructor's cars, thinking somebody will take pity on my sad hangdog look and invite me to ride with them. So far I've scored 4 rides so I must have a pretty good hangdog look.

 

[Finface]

What is amazing is he has rubber remaining on those tires! I have seen pictures.

DGatzby,

You are right to observe those stock Pirelli 305 All-Season tires are tough mutha's. I get to drive 30 minute sessions with 10/10th's Motorsports...so let's see...let me borrow your trusty slide rule here...21 sessions at three weekends under my belt...that's 10.5 hours of hard-charging HPDE, plus about 2,500 street miles.

Putnam Park October 17, 2020 - great weather for tracking! Got a ride in that gray Grand Sport with the instructor owner.



Had my alignment with the AAD suspension parts (and Whiteline rear cradle bushings) shot after installation and again after my National Corvette Museum HPDE on October 3/4. They remained very close on front and rear camber - only changed .1 degree one way or the other which is almost within the alignment machine's/operator's tolerance, but note how the front and rear toe got more positive (front of the wheel pointing in more for those unfamiliar with the terminology of alignments). I invite everyone to speculate (or if they are knowledgeable) about why this would happen. I didn't change anything after the second shoot and ran it with less than ideal positive toe - it wasn't terribly off - and I'm going to change the tabs here and there and then get it all perfectly set. The "Current Measurements" with color is right after installation shoot, and the other one is the after NCM shoot values.





For those of you considering buying the adjustable AAD Performance control arms, DGatzby and I may be the forum members with the most recent experience with them. DGatzby hasn't gotten responses from the owners (I believe there are three guys) to his specific questions. I had an informative back and forth with both Parker and Zach (Zach uses their suspension parts in autocross and road course in his Charger - the parts fit Challengers, Chargers and the Chrysler 300 ) over about two months - pleading supreme ignorance while trying to fully understand how their tab system works and to translate it to my road course application (versus their default drag strip/lowered car customers). Parker told me historically less than about 3% of their customers want to set their cars up with more negative camber than stock for road course driving. As DGatzby has discovered Hellcats (RE and probably non-RE) do not realize a net benefit from more than stock negative camber - and especially with his 345/30-20 rear tires on 12" custom wheels he has concluded zero to .5 negative camber - a narrow nearly flat camber window - is the only value that allows his tires to consistently hook. With a nod to Skip Barber's book "Going Faster" I now understand why DGatzby wants hooking out of corners more than camber-enhanced traction. Accelerating out of the corner's apex shaves seconds off lap times - a speed gain tradeoff more than carrying another mph or two into the corner. And safer too because spinning tires and losing traction out of fast corners ain't a good thing! From the photos below, helped by my dusty country lane coming home Sunday, you can see the inner shoulders of my tires are wearing more than the outside shoulder. The grooves are progressively smaller going inward - easy to feel with your fingers. True of all four wheels. Of note for anyone considering HPDE with stock suspension parts and/or stock alighment settings is that last year, with all four tires set at 30 psi cold before tracking, these Pirelli All-Seasons wore evenly. After 1,800 street miles and 4 hours of HPDE at NCM they looked almost new. Only after trying the above negative camber values (day one and two at NCM set at 30 psi, day one at Putnam Park at 32 psi, day two at 30 psi) have I seen the inner shoulder wear - and it slants as expected from more tread outside to less tread inside. Each track is a 200 mile drive from my home each way too. The car handled significantly better with more negative camber, but like DGatzy I found my rear tires spin much more easily under acceleration with negative camber - and the "bad wear" negative camber isn't required. I coudn't hit it at the appropriate point coming out of corners for fear of losing it. I will therefore reduce rear camber to target DGatzby's flat to maybe .5 negative, which is less than stock and much more in line with desired drag strip values. I'll even up the front camber at negative 1.7 - a compromise for track and street. I have ordered triumpforged.com 12" rear wheels and the same size rear tire sizes as DGatzby, but with Michelin Pilot Cup 4S tires instead of his Cup 2's. 4S's will wear longer and my driving skills are not up to getting the most out of Cup 2's yet anyway.

Right rear tire.



Right front tire - the left side tires are are a mirror of the right side so I won't upload photos of the left side. It's not horrible inner wear, but a softer rubber compound would surely have worn even more. I am actually surprised the hard cornering during these two weekend October HPDE events didn't even out the wear pattern. Not cornering hard enough? And maybe I should have started with 28 psi cold to get the tires to roll over a bit more onto their outside shoulders?



Now, about changing those control arm tabs! I defer to DGatzby to illuminate anyone interested in how that process goes. He has prepped me for something of a personal struggle. I'm a Novice Class HPDE participant, but an even more Novice Class Mechanic and under no illusions. But the good news is I now have time after retirement and I'm looking forward to learning to change tabs and then having a shop reshoot alignments. Here's something to think about if you find yourself in the same boat as DGatzby and me working out adjustable suspensions - find a Tire Discounters. My local one newly opened and has the Hunter Alignment machines - wide enough ramps to load up a dually truck's rear wheels - and they offer an unlimited alignment for a year deal (and I think even three years) for a darn reasonable cost over a single alignment. I told the service manager I might be coming in every week with RDEYE because I'm experimenting with adjustable camber and toe and he said that was fine with him. The AAD guys have offered to help me out on the phone too. I'm a note-taker when I talk on the phone, and I have Parker and Zach's informative emails. I plan to regurgitate a "layman's guide to AAD tabs" which for newbies like me would shed more light on how they change camber and toe values for tracking. I'll try and get Parker's blessing to ensure I haven't misrepresented or misunderstood anything. I'll post an announcement on the forum when I get my tab system opus finished and will be happy to send it to any fellow forumite interested.

Last photo of RDEYE before she becomes stranded up on my lift for eternity *grin*. I've recently gotten two sliding jacks so I can lift the car up evenly and take off all four tires at the same time. Ask me about nightmare scenarios my overactive imagination has envisioned. The three worst being it falls off the jack points while I move the lift up and down (probably a very bad idea), an earthquake strikes Cincinnati and it falls off the jack points, and one or both jacks somehow malfunction necessitating removing the garage roof and bringing in a crane to lift the car up and out.



Best,

Finface

 

[Finface]

DGatzby (and All),

Thanks for doing the legwork and documenting brake pad wear and usefulness. Valuable info. You've identified superior products compared to OEM, which cost less than OEM. That's good stuff!

At risk of blaspheming and bringing down lightning bolts from Mount Olympus...I resorted to picking up some front and rear AutoZone Duralast Gold Semi-Metallic brake pads for our Brembo brakes on the way to Putnam Park. Due to fallen trees in my front yard, a sick dog (he's better) and a delightful colonoscopy prep weekend and colonoscopy I neglected to get more Hawk DTC 60's from Lisa at Speedlogix in time (after selling them to a fellow Challenger owner in need at NCM). I got these best quality Duralast pads just in case I needed to get home - they claim to be made to replicate OEM Brembo pads. Fortunately I didn't need them after all. And I can return them, which I will probably do, but...

The box of the rear pads. Note the fine print saying their improved performance is independent lab tested compared to prior generation Duralast pads before May, 2010, so these current pads look to have been on the market for some time.



Front Box - the fine print says the graphic may not depict what is inside and that was definitely the case. Inside were 4 correct Brembo six caliper pads and their backing plates looked like the rear pad plates above - no rivets.



I bought both these front and rear pads for $114 out the door in Kentucky (including 6% tax). I looked them over carefully in my hotel room - looked high quality to my untrained eye. I tried to find some online reviews about them but failed. I did find one quite interesting YouTube video by a guy who used an NGS brake pad test machine to test a typical small sedan's OEM and then low, medium and higher cost representative part store brake pads. This machine tests for industry standard performance - coefficients of friction, corrosion resistance, etc., and the test rotor gets red hot. The video guy didn't test Hawks or Powerstop Extreme Performance Z-26's. It would be very interesting to see the graphs on both Hawk and Z-26's regarding fade, brake pedal pressure required to generate stopping power, and temperatures achieved during the testing compared to OEM and the much less expensive aftermarket pads. Some of the higher cost pads similar to the Duralast brand I picked up seemed to be working as well or better than OEM pads. I'd love to hear some opinions on this testing video.

Unless the Duralast Gold Semi-Metallic pads are dangerous junk that will likely catch fire on the track, ruin the rotors, or fade way too much, it begs the question...for $114 front and rear even if they wear out much faster (they might not) trackers could go through multiple sets of them and still come out significantly ahead financially. TD's breakout of road course track day costs was very useful - but probably financially sobering for people considering joining the ranks of road course enthusiasts and wondering about expenses. Maybe (Zeus, spare me for my blasphemy for I know not of what I speak!) things have changed in the last decade regarding AutoZone's (and other major retail parts supply stores) best grade brake pads?

The Dodge OEM Brembo's are almost shockingly expensive compared to these Duralasts and I'm never going to buy another set (plus the dust is incredible). Here's what my Dodge dealership quoted me on September 22, 2020;

Brembo 6 caliper Front pads $489 - Part # 68248384AC.
Brembo 4 caliper Rear pads $312 - Part # 68144223AC.
Total = $801, plus 6% tax is $849.

That's just shy of 7.5 times more expensive than the Duralast pads.

Aftermarket Hawk DTC-60's from Speedlogix, with shipping and a 10% discount, still totaled $516.96. I think you said you're getting 5 track days out of the Hawk DTC-70's (an even higher performance pad and a little more expensive than the 60's). Seems accurate to say using Hawks costs close to $100 per track day and using OEM pads more like $200 per track day.

Lastly...the use them all the time notion because they might just work and they are dustless and quiet and easy on the rotors...forgoing Hawk's and OEM and Duralast (and their comparable competitors)...how about just sticking with Z-26's? From Speedlogix's website - "Power Stop extreme pads are made for high performance street drivers who demand shorter stops under the most demanding conditions. The Z26 brake torque is consistently higher than OE pads with outstanding thermal stability. Power Stop Extreme Performance pads are best suited for high horsepower cars and big wheel upgrades. The Z26 friction compound is a carbon fiber and ceramic hybrid that resists fade to 1500 degrees. With Z26 pads, you can count on superior pad bite without dusty wheels."

I did see the disclaimer about "made for high performance street drivers", but isn't 1500 degrees a higher temperature than anyone could reasonably expect to see at an HPDE event? 20 to 30 minutes of hard use, then an hour of cool down? Are Hawk's rated higher than that? I just ran as hard as I could manage at Putnam Park five times on Saturday, for 30 minutes each session, with the hour cool down with my original OEM pads and they were consistently predictable stoppers with no detectable fade (I do have fresh Motul 600 racing brake fluid in my RE thanks to you clueing me in on that need). As far as I could tell I'd only just pulled off the freeway. If the Z-26's are better than my OEM pads right now are, well, I'd be a happy camper. Looking at Speedlogix's website we can buy front and rear Z-26 pads for our Brembo's for about $165 delivered to our homes. That's three sets of Z-26's for the price of one set of Hawk DTC 60's.

Am I missing something(s), or are the Powerstop higher torque and temperature claims exaggerated? I appreciate that TD and you are experts pushing the road course performance envelope - right to the edge - of what our cars can safely do. If I were in that league I'd probably not even be asking these questions. But for the 90% of Challenger owners who will by virtue of lesser skill sets or psychological barriers never operate their cars during HPDE at your level where's the value point in these brake pads?

Throwing all this out there looking for advice - thanks for reading - and standing by for incoming!

Best,

Finface

 

[DGatzby]

@Finface it don’t matter what they say, those Powerstops are for the street. Don’t even try for 1500 degrees!

If I said I could get five days out of a set of pads, that shit must have been good that night. I can’t.

That combo of tabs on the back has me scratching my head. That unbalanced toe is weird. When I call AAD I bet I’ll have 100% of his tabs! I have +2’s max now. But I sure can go a long ways in the other direction.

I’ll just call AAD, apparently they don’t do email. I need his tension arms, so I can replace them for a third and final time on this unit. That will make the call fun. I don’t like the fake set I have from SX, those bushings squeak. I don’t like the BMR set because of the cheesey cheap connection to the spindle and the lack of proper spacers/washers provided to make up the space they did not want to devote to more steel to make the piece stronger. So third time is the charm. Then I will have their complete set of arms on the car.

I know their new Spheriflex bushings on the AAD arms won’t squeak, because I have four of them installed in the car already and they rock.

AND your welcome, pushed the envelope so far when I had the RE out the first time last year as you know, I found its limit alright. They don’t do worth a shit in the grass either.

 

[Finface]

@Finface it don’t matter what they say, those Powerstops are for the street. Don’t even try for 1500 degrees!

If I said I could get five days out of a set of pads, that shit must have been good that night. I can’t.

That combo of tabs on the back has me scratching my head. That unbalanced toe is weird. When I call AAD I bet I’ll have 100% of his tabs! I have +2’s max now. But I sure can go a long ways in the other direction.

I’ll just call AAD, apparently they don’t do email. I need his tension arms, so I can replace them for a third and final time on this unit. That will make the call fun. I don’t like the fake set I have from SX, those bushings squeak. I don’t like the BMR set because of the cheesey cheap connection to the spindle and the lack of proper spacers/washers provided to make up the space they did not want to devote to more steel to make the piece stronger. So third time is the charm. Then I will have their complete set of arms on the car.

I know their new Spheriflex bushings on the AAD arms won’t squeak, because I have four of them installed in the car already and they rock.

AND your welcome, pushed the envelope so far when I had the RE out the first time last year as you know, I found its limit alright. They don’t do worth a shit in the grass either.

DGatzby,

Lol! I didn't go back and check what you actually said about it, but 5 days sounded good!

I ordered front and back Z-26 pads late today from Speedlogix because regardless of which track pads are required for my more "heart of the envelope" HPDE driving I want them for the rest of the year, and will want them for the spring prior to any more HPDE events in late spring. So I can put off getting dedicated track pads for now and maybe there will be a spirited discussion ensuing *grin*.

Alexis, who took my order, is sure nice at Speedlogix. I gave her a quick rundown on my post in your thread about brake pads and she said she ran her Challenger SRT somewhere recently - don't think a full blown HPDE - with Z-26 pads and while they were okay for what she did she also said she wouldn't choose to have them installed in her car to do the same thing again, and for sure not anything more like an HPDE weekend. She echoed your (and the many others on the forum) findings they are great for the street, and for the same reasons. So my first DIY brake job will be taking off the worn out OEM's and installing these Powerstops. Probably next week.

The last I heard from Parker they aren't offering any of their AAD parts now without the previously offered upgrade to Spheriflex bushings. So they are now standard. He said they are just so superior they want them in all their parts. It's possible your emails got sorted into some spam folder. While he's let a few weeks go by before answering an email due to "being slammed" he has always been eager to explain things and I've enjoyed his personality and wit and expertise. And no shit, I bet every person reading my posts can relate to Parker's wondering how in the world I can ask so many questions! I'm fortunate he wanted to explore in depth my layman's journey and spent the time writing back. He eventually concluded I overthink some aspects of the tab system - but I'll push back a bit on that simply because road course enthusiasts really aren't prevalent (yet) in their customer base and their website reflects that fact. We should be better served because their products are so well made for the curvy track as well as the drag strip.

Best,

Finface

 

[DGatzby]

You are thinking too hard. Go do a big smoking burnout or something with those tires and call Biz and tell him you need your rubber so you can use your car. But, I just had dinner with some guys and can think perfectly straight now

 

[Finface]

You are thinking too hard. Go do a big smoking burnout or something with those tires and call Biz and tell him you need your rubber so you can use your car. But, I just had dinner with some guys and can think perfectly straight now

Nothing like some fraternal cheer to clear the mind. In fact, after I read this last night I opened a cold one and got to thinkin'...

What would be really fun would be to practice drifting or an epic burnout in a big parking lot. The police frown upon such things on public roads so we need to start a franchise operation on private properties to accommodate fun in cars nationwide. The malls are going under so their giant parking lots will be perfect. We can have a tire guy there with old tires suitable for destruction who can quickly remount tires. Take off your good tires, throw on some old tires (if you don't have any), destroy them in exuberant fiendish delight and then the guy remounts your tires and you drive home. Package deal for $200. Be a great litmus test on a date night. If your date loves roaring around in smoky circles she's a keeper. If not, next!

I went to a drag strip twice last year for a test and tune night. I drove around the water and didn't do a burn out. In fact, I've never done a burnout. Maybe still time to flatten my rear camber and go to the strip - and fool around with the line lock. Going to replace the Pirelli's soon enough anyway!

 

[DGatzby]

Nothing like some fraternal cheer to clear the mind. In fact, after I read this last night I opened a cold one and got to thinkin'...

What would be really fun would be to practice drifting or an epic burnout in a big parking lot. The police frown upon such things on public roads so we need to start a franchise operation on private properties to accommodate fun in cars nationwide. The malls are going under so their giant parking lots will be perfect. We can have a tire guy there with old tires suitable for destruction who can quickly remount tires. Take off your good tires, throw on some old tires (if you don't have any), destroy them in exuberant fiendish delight and then the guy remounts your tires and you drive home. Package deal for $200. Be a great litmus test on a date night. If your date loves roaring around in smoky circles she's a keeper. If not, next!

I went to a drag strip twice last year for a test and tune night. I drove around the water and didn't do a burn out. In fact, I've never done a burnout. Maybe still time to flatten my rear camber and go to the strip - and fool around with the line lock. Going to replace the Pirelli's soon enough anyway!

They do a burnout contest in Sundance WY. every Wednesday of the Sturgis motorcycle rally every year. That event is my favorite of the week. The shop nearly across the street from the bar that sponsors it every year runs a special on replacement rear tires

Hope the snow melts just a bit, because as you know I DO have two big tires to burn up. Hope I don’t need to wait till spring. I have filmed a smoke show for nearly each set of tires I have used on the Hellcats.

 

[sad]

You know how you can tell that what you bought wont live through a day of track driving? Just tell us how much they cost. THAT will tell you they’re not track pads.

Also... if you can get them off the shelf in a retail store? They’re not track pads.

 

[DGatzby]

Alright let’s bonus everyone who is going to read this boring road course parts thread! Here is the unit responsible for the burnout above!

I would post the previous pic of her facing me, but I don’t want any of you falling in love. It is as outstanding from the front and rear.

 

[Finface]

You know how you can tell that what you bought wont live through a day of track driving? Just tell us how much they cost. THAT will tell you they’re not track pads.

Also... if you can get them off the shelf in a retail store? They’re not track pads.

Sad,

I have little doubt you're right on both counts. In any case I saw some videos warning about buying Duralast pads on YouTube and I did return them.

The question about something like the Duralast Semi-Metallic Gold pads being okay for road course was begged when I saw that video of the brake pad testing. It seemed to conclude that the retail store high end semi-metallic pads, like those Duralast pads from AutoZone, succeeded in meeting, or even exceeding in some cases, OEM brake pad performance. If (and it is a big IF for SRT Brembo brakes) it were actually true that Duralast was as good as Brembo OEM pads the cost of brake pads would be greatly reduced. I searched for the SAE testing results for the Duralast pads - they should be somewhere online - and couldn't find it. Perhaps another red flag!

So I threw the idea of retail store pads out there for comment - and appreciate that you did.

I have the wheels off my Challenger Hellcat and was surprised to see I have at least half the pad thickness left on all four corners. Tomorrow I'll probably put on the Z-26's I ordered from Speedlogix. Be my first brake pad change.

Best,

Finface