Which Fuel Makes More Power? Race Fuel or Ethanol?

[ostmike]

 

[BULL]

Interesting

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Fair to say every time you're saying "race fuel" you're referring to leaded gasoline race fuel, right?
Renegade E112 is leaded e85... I don't want people to confuse it with something like Ignite e90, which is 90% ethanol with 10% gasoline. There is no 112% ethanol fuel
If this was a turbo car, the gains would be even more because with the additional fuel needed for e it creates more exhaust gases - something Dr TuneEmAll mentioned recently. I thought that was interesting.

Nice experiment!

 

[BULL]

...There is no 112% ethanol fuel ...

 

[BULL]

Maybe if you squished it REALLY hard...?

 

[ostmike]

Fair to say every time you're saying "race fuel" you're referring to leaded gasoline race fuel, right?
Renegade E112 is leaded e85... I don't want people to confuse it with something like Ignite e90, which is 90% ethanol with 10% gasoline. There is no 112% ethanol fuel
If this was a turbo car, the gains would be even more because with the additional fuel needed for e it creates more exhaust gases - something Dr TuneEmAll mentioned recently. I thought that was interesting.

Nice experiment!

I believe Micah specifies the fuel types and ethanol content of the E112 in the video.
For reference outside of the video the "Race Fuel" is Renegade Pro120 and the ethanol is Renegade E112 which is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
E85 at the pumps is anywhere from 50% to 90% ethanol and the remaining content is not required to be gasoline - it can be other liquid that burns similar to gasoline.

 

[ostmike]

If this was a turbo car, the gains would be even more because with the additional fuel needed for e it creates more exhaust gases - something Dr TuneEmAll mentioned recently. I thought that was interesting.

This would assume that you are not controlling boost.
In that case I would agree that if boost is not being limited that the additional boost would produce additional power.

 

[Unholy707]

Great video. Ethanol is always the way to go. Octane might be lower, but it cools the air charge. Would have been interesting to see side by side comparisons of MAT on both fuels

 

[ostmike]

Great video. Ethanol is always the way to go. Octane might be lower, but it cools the air charge. Would have been interesting to see side by side comparisons of MAT on both fuels

I don't know how the different fuels would impact the MAT but I did check for you anyway and they are identical with gas and ethanol.

 

[Unholy707]

I don't know how the different fuels would impact the MAT but I did check for you anyway and they are identical with gas and ethanol.

That makes sense since it’s measured before the injectors

 

[Speedy!]

Cool experiment. A few years ago I was pretty against E85, I just didn't see the point with the cost of upgraded fuel system components in "some" cars. Now with the Redeyes coming with dual pumps, aftermarket dual pump setups being less expensive, plug and play, etc, I think the only other add on is the larger injector. If you have E85 pumps in your area it's a no brainer ESPECIALLY compared to gasoline.

Having had both, these cars really like E85 even cruising around there's a big difference on how they drive. I did run some oil analysis and did not find a need to change oil more frequently. Caveat, I drive my cars all the time so they never "sit" which may be where the oil change frequency has to be more often.

 

[ostmike]

Cool experiment. A few years ago I was pretty against E85, I just didn't see the point with the cost of upgraded fuel system components in "some" cars. Now with the Redeyes coming with dual pumps, aftermarket dual pump setups being less expensive, plug and play, etc, I think the only other add on is the larger injector. If you have E85 pumps in your area it's a no brainer ESPECIALLY compared to gasoline.

Having had both, these cars really like E85 even cruising around there's a big difference on how they drive. I did run some oil analysis and did not find a need to change oil more frequently. Caveat, I drive my cars all the time so they never "sit" which may be where the oil change frequency has to be more often.

Thanks for the input Speedy!
The focus on the test was power gains or losses.
In the past on lower powered cars ( <800 whp on our dyno - stock Hellcat makes approx 620 whp) switching to ethanol did not yield reasonable power gains over race fuel.
However, on our race Hellcat we did switch to ethanol for the safety factor. Due to the power level we could not measure power gains or losses since it would not hook on the dyno.
On the current race Hellcat we have switched to methanol which has an entire list of other factors to consider (including no longer needing to run a radiator or cooling system).

I agree that if you have reasonably priced E85 readily available and a car that already is equipped from the factory with dual pumps you have a strong basis to run ethanol.
The even stronger basis for you is that your car has a true ethanol content sensor which eliminates the responsibility/prudence of testing the ethanol content at the pump every time you stop to get fuel.

I know quite a few folks running E85 do not test ethanol content at the pump. If they are filling up on their way to the track and end up with a batch of E60 when being aggressively tuned for E85/E90 it might not be a good situation.

 

[Speedy!]

I have a picture of e85 from three brands in clear containers. Lemme see if I can find it....do have to insure it's good stuff.

 

[ostmike]

I have a picture of e85 from three brands in clear containers. Lemme see if I can find it....do have to insure it's good stuff.

We have to drive a bit to find stations that have ethanol near our shop. We always test before putting it in customer cars and the ethanol content ranges from E70 to E90. That's a reasonably tight range since it legally can be as low as E50. We just tune the cars for E70 for safety reasons - but we generally tune everything conservatively unless we know the customers skill set and understanding of the risks involved when pushing this platform.

 

[Speedy!]

These were from my local E85 pumps. I think the one on the left is Thorton's the one in the middle Mobile and the one on the right is for sure Speedway.



Left = E75 - yellowy in color and smelled funny - not like moonshine or gasoline something else. I would never run this in my car due to smell and color.

Middle = E80 - was cloudy with some odd stuff floating in it - can't see it in the pics but looked like very small white particles. I would never run this in my car due to the stuff floating in it.

Right = E80 - crystal clear and mostly smelled just like moonshine with a "hint" of gasoline. This is the Speedway brand and this is what I've always used in my cars. I check it spring and fall to see when they switch from summer to winter blend and it's always crystal clear and smells like shine. Lowest I've ever measured was E70, highest E90. Most of the time it's E85 exactly.

The point which Mike already made is that you really need to know it's good E85 if you're relying on it as pump E85 is not all equal.

 

[Forgedrod]

Limit of redeye fuel pump using ETOH. Adequate duty cycle with 1300's, and 3.02 pulley (if you can get one)?

 

[Speedy!]

ETOH? You must be a medical professional lol.

I ran dual 285 pumps and a 2.85 pulley on my Redeye setup in the old car and was losing fuel pressure on 1300 injectors. I ended up adding a 3rd pump. 3.02 might be OK.

 

[vortecd]

I guess we are lucky in Michigan with the e85 here. Lowest I ever tested was 75% and runs 83-85% during the summer. E85 is plentiful around me. I have 2 station in my small town and 2 more by my work less then 12 miles away

Our 93 is really expensive here so it costs less to run e85. Typically 93 is $2 a gallon more then e85 but when gas prices lower they get closer but still looking at $1.70 difference

 

[2ndgen]

I don't understand how they can legally sell down to E50 labelled as E85.
At least the regs on octane labels are strict--although you still have to worry about pumps that share the same hose--can be as much as 1-2 gal of whatever the prior purchaser pumped still in the line before your selection makes it through...

 

[Speedy!]

E85 all over the place here too, Speedway is AWESOME stuff and there's even a station on my way to Beech Bend