Aftermarket parts - what works and what is a waste of cash?

[DGatzby]

That’s good stuff @DGatzby thanks for sharing

I kept the DP rotors on and put the Z26’s against them. Damn, works just fine! I used the Hawks to scrape off as much as I could by driving on the street and doing a few moderate stops. I see the Z26’s are cleaning off more of it and shining the rotors, how special. So as a prep again before I hit the track, probably next year, I will try those Cobalt pads and see if they can bed-in and work once more without the Hawk residue.

 

[sad]

Yeah.. in a perfect world we’d swap it all out (rotor with pads) to stay completely compatible...

One thing to keep in mind regarding your pad thickness and measurements. Pad wear (life) and ability to take on heat is not linear. It would be on a curve... as pad is used, its ability to reject heat is further reduced. I’m probably doing a lousy job of explaining my point. Need a graphing calculator LOL

Which... if you ask around the track much, many consider a pad “used up” when the amount of pad left is equal to the thickness of the backing plate. Even tho there might be 3mm left, those 3mm provide no substantial useful life... Nothing like the 3mm that were are the beginning of the pad’s life when first installed. Because of that curve thingy.

Ok.. I’ve confused myself.

 

[DGatzby]

I get it and understand. The second half of the pad won’t last as long as the first 1/2, because it cannot deal with the heat as efficiently. How's that? I agree, if I look at a pad and it is as thick as that plate, it is over, needs replaced, no more sessions. So next time to the track, maybe I be having a front pad swapping party to use up all my Hawks!

 

[sad]

I get it and understand. The second half of the pad won’t last as long as the first 1/2, because it cannot deal with the heat as efficiently. How's that? I agree, if I look at a pad and it is as thick as that plate, it is over, needs replaced, no more sessions. So next time to the track, maybe I be having a front pad swapping party to use up all my Hawks!

A whole lot better than when I stated it!!

 

[CDT Rotors]

Much

We hear you loud and clear.

Of the countless things we are actively working on, the last few weeks have been focused on friction material. As you might be aware, there are thousands of compounds to narrow down and choose from.

Fortunately we are working with 1 or 2 (maybe even 3?) different performance companies to optimize our selection, of which we are working towards 4 options; Street, Strip, Trackday and Track.

Street - Low dust, good bite
Strip - High initial bite
Trackday - High CoF
Track - Higher CoF

(Simplified)


Our first choice in partnerships we are very excited about and they are as well. As you can also imagine, we can't share anymore at this point.

 

[DGatzby]

We hear you loud and clear.

Of the countless things we are actively working on, the last few weeks have been focused on friction material. As you might be aware, there are thousands of compounds to narrow down and choose from.

Fortunately we are working with 1 or 2 (maybe even 3?) different performance companies to optimize our selection, of which we are working towards 4 options; Street, Strip, Trackday and Track.

Street - Low dust, good bite
Strip - High initial bite
Trackday - High CoF
Track - Higher CoF

(Simplified)


Our first choice in partnerships we are very excited about and they are as well. As you can also imagine, we can't share anymore at this point.

I like it. Equal or superior brake performance with a substantial savings in unsprung weight. That has my attention. It all adds up to helping our fundamental handicap; weight.

Get it so I can keep those rotors on to use on the street and just change pads for my track use and that gets me to even a better place, QUICK!

 

[1320wizard]

What is your average consumable cost for a day of racing hard?

Thanks

 

[TrackDay]

@DGatzby, I agree with most of your statements but I'll tell you I've found the limits of the stock front calipers. I do brake a lot harder than you and I expect that's the difference. I'll burn through a set of DTC70 pads in 3 sessions to where the thin side of the taper is about the thickness of the backing plate. At first I noticed this being worse at Road America which is more understandable but as I've started to push the car harder at Brainerd I can equal the pad wear there now too. The difference is I can't push the car hard at Road America for more than about 3 laps without losing too much pad friction (overtemping pads). At Brainerd I never lose braking performance, the pads just wear out quickly.
If Wesley comes out with a Viper caliper adapter this winter I'll get it and another set of tires and focus on achieving some lower maintenance fun.

 

[TrackDay]

What is your average consumable cost for a day of racing hard?

1 set of front pads at about $300
Entry fee at about $300
Insurance at about $200 (just started getting it this year)
20 gallons of fuel in 4 sessions at about $100
Towing fuel for truck depends on track distance from home but I get about 8 mpg towing.
Hotel night before and sometimes after depending on distance - $100 per night if I don't use points.
Set of tires at about $1900 including mounting and balancing last me about 5-6 track days. So something like $350 per track day.
Half a bottle or so of Castrol SRF per day at about $70 per bottle.
These costs are why I've kept my mods list very small and have not changed what isn't broken. I need to retire someday.

 

[sad]

I was gonna say my cost is about $450-ish per day. Holds true for for both the Hellcat and vette. Hellcat a little more and vette a little less.

Most people see the track fee, and think “oh that’s not too bad, I should try it.” And get hooked. And realize that low per day price was a pipe dream.

Heavy cars cost a LOT to run. Hellcat worst. Mustang/Camaro next. And Vette edges them out.

No one seems to take into account the consumables. @TrackDay has the right idea with pro-rating how much of a consumable is consumed per day.

I get asked by people all the time about getting in to the hobby. I tell them, “Buy a Miata!” Cost next to nothing in consumables.

My Atom is similar to the Miata in that respect. Only weighs 1350 pounds. My brake pads (DTC30) have been on the car (road and track) for over a year now. Lots and lots of life left.

For tires I’m running TW60 Pirelli Trofeo R tires and I’ll be curious to see when replacement is necessary. Not soon based upon wear as it stands today. NO way would I drive these tires on any hellcat. It would probably be a tire good only for one afternoon LOL

 

[1320wizard]

Thanks for the info. A little more than I would expect, especially since the only track nearby is Heartland Park. We also have a 72 vette that i own dirt cheap that could have some significant dollars thrown at it and still be half what I paid for the RE WB.

 

[DGatzby]

@DGatzby, I agree with most of your statements but I'll tell you I've found the limits of the stock front calipers. I do brake a lot harder than you and I expect that's the difference. I'll burn through a set of DTC70 pads in 3 sessions to where the thin side of the taper is about the thickness of the backing plate. At first I noticed this being worse at Road America which is more understandable but as I've started to push the car harder at Brainerd I can equal the pad wear there now too. The difference is I can't push the car hard at Road America for more than about 3 laps without losing too much pad friction (overtemping pads). At Brainerd I never lose braking performance, the pads just wear out quickly.
If Wesley comes out with a Viper caliper adapter this winter I'll get it and another set of tires and focus on achieving some lower maintenance fun.

TD, my partner in road course crime, thanks for chiming in! Go get those, calipers hope you see an improvement. How have you determined I don’t brake hard at BIR? RA is another story. I would rather drive without brake failure and save my pads then try to shave a few more seconds off a HDPE lap like we have talked. Thanks for the warning there again, TD, you saved me some grief that weekend. Let me get there next year with a good alignment and I’ll compare lap times with you braking the way I do, and you do what you do. That may help both of us. Maybe the best/optimum is somewhere in between?

Watch those videos from last week and let me know how much deeper you think you go into #3, because I was braking aggressively. I did not hold much back. I would have been right up my buddies’ Viper ACR’s rear end with a deeper initiation of the brakes. Did consistent low 1:50’s and recorded a lap time equal to your reported best on the short track. I felt pretty good about that because I can listen to the stereo in my 4500 lb boat on the way to the track if I want. As you know, I have removed zero items from the RE. You know I was being conservative between those concrete walls too, it has a second or two yet, if you have some cash to bet. I’ll spring for those new rotors hopefully soon from our friends here and keep the calipers for another year. I’ll let you try the calipers and let me know if that helps our beasts with one of our worst problems. I’ll let you know about the rotors if you don’t have a set. The week before when I destroyed the Brembos on the short track, this little man could not have pressed the pedal any harder, they were in a constant state of fade and were flat scary. Changing out to the Hawks again was night and day and worth about 3-5 consistent seconds FYI.

It has been a lot tougher than I anticipated getting this new monster dialed in. You saw how frustrated I was in June. Sure enough it had a toe-out that I was not aware of until it was checked. Now that that is done, I can’t tell yet if it is the little more power or the gear set, but it sure is different than the ‘15 in a lot of ways that are surprising. Since I was able to concentrate last week, the gear set definitely has some differences around that course. TD I still say I have less than say three successful passes down the big straight yet with this one with the mods and new wheels/tires. You know how that is bothering me! Seems like it just won’t get locked down with good traction. That cat litter on the road for the last session last week screwed me. I was waiting for the heat of the afternoon to really cook the tires and give it a rip through #1. Darn it again! But btw what I did in #2 all day and what it did do a few times through #1, I got close enough to tell you, we can do it. It will just take some guts maybe together. Harder than hell to slow it down into the correct entry speed we want at those velocities and not miss it and get too slow!

 

[TrackDay]

TD, my partner in road course crime, thanks for chiming in! Go get those, calipers hope you see an improvement. How have you determined I don’t brake hard at BIR? RA is another story. I would rather drive without brake failure and save my pads then try to shave a few more seconds off a HDPE lap like we have talked. Thanks for the warning there again, TD, you saved me some grief that weekend. Let me get there next year with a good alignment and I’ll compare lap times with you braking the way I do, and you do what you do. That may help both of us. Maybe the best/optimum is somewhere in between?

Watch those videos from last week and let me know how much deeper you think you go into #3, because I was braking aggressively. I did not hold much back. I would have been right up my buddies’ Viper ACR’s rear end with a deeper initiation of the brakes. Did consistent low 1:50’s and recorded a lap time equal to your reported best on the short track. I felt pretty good about that because I can listen to the stereo in my 4500 lb boat on the way to the track if I want. As you know, I have removed zero items from the RE. You know I was being conservative between those concrete walls too, it has a second or two yet, if you have some cash to bet. I’ll spring for those new rotors hopefully soon from our friends here and keep the calipers for another year.

The comments about braking style are purely from things we've discussed over the past few years, as well as when we were at the track this summer. I was mainly catching you in Turn 1, 2 and braking for Turn 3. During the slower parts of the course your speed was about the same as mine. You had to hold back on the straight due to your alignment issue. You know I've had that same issue in the past. It's damn scary.
In addition, regarding the brakes, here are pictures of my front calipers and pads. The DTC70 front pads were new for that day at Brainerd. The caliper discoloration is due to heat, I believe mostly at Road America. Heck, Kevin Wesley showed me that his rear calipers are discolored like that too.



Regarding weight loss, all I've done on my car is remove the back seats. I added the Demon harness bar, so half of that weight is right back. Noone would use the rear seats with that harness bar back there anyway. I also removed the trunk floor panel because it interfered with my Petty rear shock brace. and I didn't want to cut it up. The other items, like the front sway bar and front rotors you've done too. I think you also have the lighter Demon rear rotors that I don't.
But sure, it's all in good fun. I enjoy learning things from you and I think you are the same.

 

[BULL]

 

[BULL]

 

[TrackDay]

Thanks for the info. A little more than I would expect, especially since the only track nearby is Heartland Park. We also have a 72 vette that i own dirt cheap that could have some significant dollars thrown at it and still be half what I paid for the RE WB.

Before I started getting a little more serious I used to drive to Waterford Hills and M1 Concourse and Nelson Ledges in my car. I was using the factory brakes and had really only done the MP springs and some 10" wheels and Pirelli R compound tires. That setup was ultra cheap. It was basically the fuel I used and about $250-300 per track day. The brakes lasted a long time (2 seasons) and the tires also lasted about 8-10 track days. As I started going to higher speed tracks the need for better brakes became apparent. Then I wanted to get some better tires . . . at least I haven't switched to Hoosiers yet. I have a friend with a Hellcat Charger who has. I'm waiting to see how long they last him.

 

[TrackDay]

I was gonna say my cost is about $450-ish per day. Holds true for for both the Hellcat and vette. Hellcat a little more and vette a little less.

Most people see the track fee, and think “oh that’s not too bad, I should try it.” And get hooked. And realize that low per day price was a pipe dream.

Heavy cars cost a LOT to run. Hellcat worst. Mustang/Camaro next. And Vette edges them out.

No one seems to take into account the consumables. @TrackDay has the right idea with pro-rating how much of a consumable is consumed per day.

I get asked by people all the time about getting in to the hobby. I tell them, “Buy a Miata!” Cost next to nothing in consumables.

My Atom is similar to the Miata in that respect. Only weighs 1350 pounds. My brake pads (DTC30) have been on the car (road and track) for over a year now. Lots and lots of life left.

For tires I’m running TW60 Pirelli Trofeo R tires and I’ll be curious to see when replacement is necessary. Not soon based upon wear as it stands today. NO way would I drive these tires on any hellcat. It would probably be a tire good only for one afternoon LOL

My next car (still keeping Challenger though) is going to weigh about 2500 lbs. and hopefully be mid engine, although an Exocet is hard for me to ignore (tube frame with Miata suspension and 500 HP LS3 in the front). Targetting a great autox car and low cost of ownership. For the faster tracks I might still bring the Challenger a couple of times a year.

 

[TrackDay]

View attachment 25789

What's the amperage draw though?

 

[BULL]

5.5ish


80ish watts


Not too bad

 

[TrackDay]

5.5ish


80ish watts


Not too bad

Ok. That's better than what we initially discussed I think. I still have my 2 I plan to install by next spring unless you have something ready before then.