Aftermarket parts - what works and what is a waste of cash?

[Finface]

Alright let’s bonus everyone who is going to read this boring road course parts thread! Here is the unit responsible for the burnout above!

I would post the previous pic of her facing me, but I don’t want any of you falling in love. It is as outstanding from the front and rear.
View attachment 27514

If one didn't know otherwise...one might conclude the first smoky burnout photo in this threat was the unfortunate result of her falling into a trap door on that bridge.

 

[DGatzby]

If one didn't know otherwise...one might conclude the first smoky burnout photo in this threat was the unfortunate result of her falling into a trap door on that bridge.

It was a few years ago. She did real good. She was a drag racer on that special construction MC.

 

[Hickster]

I spoke on a thread concerning a radar detector/ scrambler. I was promoting a Rocky Mountain brand. Have been using their products for over 20 years and never had a problem. Sat night got hit by a Fl trooper with not a peep out of the device. He got me, says 90 in a 55, but him and I spoke about it and it was over 120. He wrote me for 90. The manufactor I will be in touch with today. They will pick up the cost of the ticket but points are on me. No tickets, speeding, not in 20 years, 3 points on my license for last May. A 2 mph bump at a light. So, until I can straighten out,,, I retract my endorsement.

 

[sad]

Sad,

I have little doubt you're right on both counts. In any case I saw some videos warning about buying Duralast pads on YouTube and I did return them.

The question about something like the Duralast Semi-Metallic Gold pads being okay for road course was begged when I saw that video of the brake pad testing. It seemed to conclude that the retail store high end semi-metallic pads, like those Duralast pads from AutoZone, succeeded in meeting, or even exceeding in some cases, OEM brake pad performance. If (and it is a big IF for SRT Brembo brakes) it were actually true that Duralast was as good as Brembo OEM pads the cost of brake pads would be greatly reduced. I searched for the SAE testing results for the Duralast pads - they should be somewhere online - and couldn't find it. Perhaps another red flag!

So I threw the idea of retail store pads out there for comment - and appreciate that you did.

I have the wheels off my Challenger Hellcat and was surprised to see I have at least half the pad thickness left on all four corners. Tomorrow I'll probably put on the Z-26's I ordered from Speedlogix. Be my first brake pad change.

Best,

Finface

Sorry for so long getting back to you and this thread. Been 😷. Anyways.....

I really don’t doubt much that the off the shelf pads might meet the Brembo performance specs on a limited basis under certain circumstances ..... but as pointed out above, no way at 1500F. And even if they will tolerate 1500F on the street, track temps are a completely different story. They go up quickly, and stay there.

Heres an interesting product video. Live data, infra-red temp readings on track. Note the low end temp on the scale is a running 400C. How quickly temp is gained on each turn... and how how the ultimate temps go. Scale to 850C.

http://www.izzeracing.com/products/brake-infrared-temperature-sensors.html

I respect and enjoy Engineering Explained’s work. However I do not believe his demonstration could ever generate the heat/repetitively enough to simulate actual track conditions. But I’m just a random guy basing that on empirical observations and personal experience.

My Vette weighs 3480 with me in it. Some 1000 less than my Challenger. Coming off track I’ll see 500-600 on the rotors after cool-down lap and idling to parking in the paddock. In the HC, I’d see 650-700 under the same conditions.

Now the above is in no way an attempt to compare.... because all kinds of things like driver capabilities, environmental conditions, and track setup can affect these temps.... it’s meant to show that a) it’s possible and b) the HC is a heavy beast, and is roughly 30% ‘hotter’ than the vette. Not something you might expect seeing them parked side by side.

HTH

 

[DGatzby]

PS4S works at 40 degrees! Drove it to dinner yesterday. Not many days remaining to get the beast out. About 30 psi, they do fine considering the temps.

How do I like the “tweak” in the rear alignment closer to what a drag racer would use? I can’t believe it, but I feel the difference in the camber! I do believe the change was good. Plus if I make it spin, it is more straight forward now with the fairly consistent drift towards the right mostly eliminated.

 

[sad]

PS4S works at 40 degrees! Drove it to dinner yesterday. Not many days remaining to get the beast out. About 30 psi, they do fine considering the temps.

How do I like the “tweak” in the rear alignment closer to what a drag racer would use? I can’t believe it, but I feel the difference in the camber! I do believe the change was good. Plus if I make it spin, it is more straight forward now with the fairly consistent drift towards the right mostly eliminated.

They have an all-season version I believe. Likely going to make it my ‘winter tire’ when my current bfg all-seasons are gone.

oh yeah they work! But just remember, the further they reach down, the less the go up in the heat range. All about range and life cycle.

buddy uses them with decent success on his BMW M2. Treats them like a pure summer only tire with second set of rims and such. They do very well. They fall short on heat range. Towards end of a day starts to fall off. And overall life not as long as an R compound due to heat cycle tolerance. But they suit his needs great And last way way longer than my tires.

oh. On edit —- good point! don’t forget air pressure as a suspension tweak like drag racer! i.e. slightly lower in front and higher in rear can tweak balance to reduce understeer. Can play throughout the day to give your brain extra stuff to do.

 

[DGatzby]

They have an all-season version I believe. Likely going to make it my ‘winter tire’ when my current bfg all-seasons are gone.

oh yeah they work! But just remember, the further they reach down, the less the go up in the heat range. All about range and life cycle.

buddy uses them with decent success on his BMW M2. Treats them like a pure summer only tire with second set of rims and such. They do very well. They fall short on heat range. Towards end of a day starts to fall off. And overall life not as long as an R compound due to heat cycle tolerance. But they suit his needs great And last way way longer than my tires.

oh. On edit —- good point! don’t forget air pressure as a suspension tweak like drag racer! i.e. slightly lower in front and higher in rear can tweak balance to reduce understeer. Can play throughout the day to give your brain extra stuff to do.

@sad dont give me more to do! Those tires are my street set, so I am not that worried about them. I have had them out in the wild as low as about the mid-30’s probably both seasons now. I’ll need to come down there and do some early season tests again, and see how many things I can break. I’ll get my buddies to wait for a certain Vette on that interstate in a RE this time. But, I am not sure that little blue Hellcat may be a factory weirdo and does better anyway, probably should have kept it. Compared my sector times on the BIR long config. The RE has not equaled the straight line sector times yet on the two longest straights! It smokes it in the corners. I’ll give one away because the surface is crap now. I have not been able to hold it WOT all the way up the long one yet!!

The front on the RE may be just a hair low from stock, the KW’s may have dropped a bit up there. Your right, except for a couple times in the BIR chicane as I was getting it “dialed in” late this year, finally and when I was giving it everything I thought it could take did I feel understeer (and the front Cup 2’s squealing in pain) for the first time in this one. Maybe also the bit taller rear tires may help out too, huh?

 

[Finface]

Sorry for so long getting back to you and this thread. Been 😷. Anyways.....

I really don’t doubt much that the off the shelf pads might meet the Brembo performance specs on a limited basis under certain circumstances ..... but as pointed out above, no way at 1500F. And even if they will tolerate 1500F on the street, track temps are a completely different story. They go up quickly, and stay there.

Heres an interesting product video. Live data, infra-red temp readings on track. Note the low end temp on the scale is a running 400C. How quickly temp is gained on each turn... and how how the ultimate temps go. Scale to 850C.

http://www.izzeracing.com/products/brake-infrared-temperature-sensors.html

I respect and enjoy Engineering Explained’s work. However I do not believe his demonstration could ever generate the heat/repetitively enough to simulate actual track conditions. But I’m just a random guy basing that on empirical observations and personal experience.

My Vette weighs 3480 with me in it. Some 1000 less than my Challenger. Coming off track I’ll see 500-600 on the rotors after cool-down lap and idling to parking in the paddock. In the HC, I’d see 650-700 under the same conditions.

Now the above is in no way an attempt to compare.... because all kinds of things like driver capabilities, environmental conditions, and track setup can affect these temps.... it’s meant to show that a) it’s possible and b) the HC is a heavy beast, and is roughly 30% ‘hotter’ than the vette. Not something you might expect seeing them parked side by side.

HTH

Sad,

That is a pretty cool rotor sensing system! I liked the video of changing temperatures - didn't know they could change that rapidly from cooler to real hot.

Okay, I'm convinced. Hawk pads, or some other special racing pad, for the track!

 

[sad]

Sad,

That is a pretty cool rotor sensing system! I liked the video of changing temperatures - didn't know they could change that rapidly from cooler to real hot.

Okay, I'm convinced. Hawk pads, or some other special racing pad, for the track!

Oh, and don’t be alarmed when a dedicated track or racing pad makes all kinds of crappy noises when you’re driving to the track on the street at normal street temperatures. Those trackpads lack all kinds of the polymers and nice gooey things that make the street pads all nice and quiet. Those types of adhesives and crap have no value as it relates to stopping ability so they are not present. As a result, at lower temperatures the trackpads are very noisy and make all kinds of squeaks and rattles. At a higher track temperatures they are much more quiet, but still not completely silent. This is completely normal. As a result, most people have two sets of pads - one for the street and one for the track that they swap out just before track events. Should also be noted that when you have a trackpad and use it outside of its normal heat range it is much more abrasive. That’s why a trackpad used on the street usually wears quickly and eats rotors fast.

 

[sad]

@sad dont give me more to do! Those tires are my street set, so I am not that worried about them. I have had them out in the wild as low as about the mid-30’s probably both seasons now. I’ll need to come down there and do some early season tests again, and see how many things I can break. I’ll get my buddies to wait for a certain Vette on that interstate in a RE this time. But, I am not sure that little blue Hellcat may be a factory weirdo and does better anyway, probably should have kept it. Compared my sector times on the BIR long config. The RE has not equaled the straight line sector times yet on the two longest straights! It smokes it in the corners. I’ll give one away because the surface is crap now. I have not been able to hold it WOT all the way up the long one yet!!

The front on the RE may be just a hair low from stock, the KW’s may have dropped a bit up there. Your right, except for a couple times in the BIR chicane as I was getting it “dialed in” late this year, finally and when I was giving it everything I thought it could take did I feel understeer (and the front Cup 2’s squealing in pain) for the first time in this one. Maybe also the bit taller rear tires may help out too, huh?

Man I’d look forward to another trip for you here. Let’s do a mid-week private day.

And definitely need to make it up there in the spring. When does weather clear up there for events?

i generally get to do my first event in the third week of Feb with PCA at MSR Cresson on the 3.1 mile config. Totally worth the trip if you could make it. I do it as a two-day.

here in OK season opens in March.

 

[Finface]

Oh, and don’t be alarmed when a dedicated track or racing pad makes all kinds of crappy noises when you’re driving to the track on the street at normal street temperatures. Those trackpads lack all kinds of the polymers and nice gooey things that make the street pads all nice and quiet. Those types of adhesives and crap have no value as it relates to stopping ability so they are not present. As a result, at lower temperatures the trackpads are very noisy and make all kinds of squeaks and rattles. At a higher track temperatures they are much more quiet, but still not completely silent. This is completely normal. As a result, most people have two sets of pads - one for the street and one for the track that they swap out just before track events. Should also be noted that when you have a trackpad and use it outside of its normal heat range it is much more abrasive. That’s why a trackpad used on the street usually wears quickly and eats rotors fast.

Sad,

Much appreciated - some new and good information you've given me. My OEM Brembo pads haven't make any odd noises street or track, but they are so dusty I felt like trying to wipe the dust off would make me a candidate for a future ambulance-chaser attorney ad.

"Did you ever try and wipe the black sticky crud off wheels that had Brembo brake pads - and now you've grown a second head that constantly fights with your wife? If so call Duster, Duster, Duster and Duster!"

DGatzby clued me in on getting some dedicated street pads, which I am in the process of installing. I'm trying the PowerStop Extreme Z26 pads. I like his idea of swapping rotors and pads as "matched sets" too. I might try that next spring and summer.

 

[DGatzby]

Man I’d look forward to another trip for you here. Let’s do a mid-week private day.

And definitely need to make it up there in the spring. When does weather clear up there for events?

i generally get to do my first event in the third week of Feb with PCA at MSR Cresson on the 3.1 mile config. Totally worth the trip if you could make it. I do it as a two-day.

here in OK season opens in March.

May! Speaking of Cresson, there is a chance if this flu shit ends that I show up with one of the members down there and a couple of Porsche’s! His favorite is his GT3.

 

[DGatzby]

Sad,

Much appreciated - some new and good information you've given me. My OEM Brembo pads haven't make any odd noises street or track, but they are so dusty I felt like trying to wipe the dust off would make me a candidate for a future ambulance-chaser attorney ad.

"Did you ever try and wipe the black sticky crud off wheels that had Brembo brake pads - and now you've grown a second head that constantly fights with your wife? If so call Duster, Duster, Duster and Duster!"

DGatzby clued me in on getting some dedicated street pads, which I am in the process of installing. I'm trying the PowerStop Extreme Z26 pads. I like his idea of swapping rotors and pads as "matched sets" too. I might try that next spring and summer.

Hawk Pad dust-

before...

Taking that dirty microfiber and using it lightly like a broom on some really nicely prepared and built wheels; after...

 

[Finface]

All,

I just received custom wheels made by triumphforged.com. These are the RX-16's. Bismarck Alvarado made the "program profile thicker than average" to better stress them for road course driving. DGatzby's sharp Roadster model wheels were also made stronger by Bismarck at his request. Thank you, DGatzby, for recommending I get some wider wheels, specifically through triumphforged.com, and dealing with Bismarck. You and he did the design work to ensure the wheels fit on Challenger Wide Body cars and don't interfere with the brakes, or rub. It was a pleasure working with Bismarck - you can tell on the phone he's excited to create such functionally beautiful wheels. He has a nice gallery of his wheel models on various cars at his website.

These are bolt on's - no spacers required - and he provides lug nuts and a special lug nut tool.

The two to the left are rear 12" wheels (they measure 13" outside edge to outside edge), the other two are front 11" (12" edge to edge) - they look bigger than I imagined. Thanks to my wife for the old sheet *grin*.





Over the winter I'll get some tires, which have been difficult to buy in the sizes I want. The word is Michelin is producing them at a faster rate now.

Many posters have made the point that wider wheels and wider, stickier tires than stock are worthwhile aftermarket upgrades.

 

[DGatzby]

All,

I just received custom wheels made by triumphforged.com. These are the RX-16's. Bismarck Alvarado made the "program profile thicker than average" to better stress them for road course driving. DGatzby's sharp Roadster model wheels were also made stronger by Bismarck at his request. Thank you, DGatzby, for recommending I get some wider wheels, specifically through triumphforged.com, and dealing with Bismarck. You and he did the design work to ensure the wheels fit on Challenger Wide Body cars and don't interfere with the brakes, or rub. It was a pleasure working with Bismarck - you can tell on the phone he's excited to create such functionally beautiful wheels. He has a nice gallery of his wheel models on various cars at his website.

These are bolt on's - no spacers required - and he provides lug nuts and a special lug nut tool.

The two to the left are rear 12" wheels (they measure 13" outside edge to outside edge), the other two are front 11" (12" edge to edge) - they look bigger than I imagined. Thanks to my wife for the old sheet *grin*.

View attachment 32350

View attachment 32351

Over the winter I'll get some tires, which have been difficult to buy in the sizes I want. The word is Michelin is producing them at a faster rate now.

Many posters have made the point that wider wheels and wider, stickier tires than stock are worthwhile aftermarket upgrades.

Get some rubber and let’s see those on the car. I bet it will look HOT!

 

[TrackDay]

All,

I just received custom wheels made by triumphforged.com. These are the RX-16's. Bismarck Alvarado made the "program profile thicker than average" to better stress them for road course driving. DGatzby's sharp Roadster model wheels were also made stronger by Bismarck at his request. Thank you, DGatzby, for recommending I get some wider wheels, specifically through triumphforged.com, and dealing with Bismarck. You and he did the design work to ensure the wheels fit on Challenger Wide Body cars and don't interfere with the brakes, or rub. It was a pleasure working with Bismarck - you can tell on the phone he's excited to create such functionally beautiful wheels. He has a nice gallery of his wheel models on various cars at his website.

These are bolt on's - no spacers required - and he provides lug nuts and a special lug nut tool.

The two to the left are rear 12" wheels (they measure 13" outside edge to outside edge), the other two are front 11" (12" edge to edge) - they look bigger than I imagined. Thanks to my wife for the old sheet *grin*.

View attachment 32350

View attachment 32351

Over the winter I'll get some tires, which have been difficult to buy in the sizes I want. The word is Michelin is producing them at a faster rate now.

Many posters have made the point that wider wheels and wider, stickier tires than stock are worthwhile aftermarket upgrades.

Check out Trackdaytire.com. They had a big sale just after Black Friday on their tires. I saved about $250 on a set I just received.

 

[DGatzby]

Another lap timer to the party. I need to read more about it and the others. But seems like a good unit. The price is a bit less than some of the others also. Garmin Catalyst. Good review and demo by Winding Road.

https://www.windingroad.com/article...atalyst-driving-performance-optimizer-part-1/

 

[DGatzby]

Just was at the AAD Website, they have themselves an interesting piece for all of us. Lightweight new front cradle! Looks like it is being tested now, maybe available soon. That is good for both us road race guys and also the drag crowd to reduce weight up front. Hope it has substantial savings!

https://aadperformance.com/

 

[fubar569]

Ooooooo....wonder what the clearances are around major parts... if there's more room for activities...

 

[DGatzby]

I don’t need to add things, I just will take anything lighter, especially up front. It could be tricky to bolt in, but we shall see what they come up with.